ETA: I learned that brownfemipower has now made her final entry available here. Note that I use the word “feminist” pretty liberally throughout this entry, and I was reminded as I read bfp’s words (I couldn’t see the entry when I wrote this) of her position of explicitly rejecting feminism. So I now recognize that “feminist” was kind of a clumsy and inaccurate way to characterize bfp’s and others’ philosophy, but I hope what I meant is still clear. I mean, if it ever was to start with. –scg
The Rotund and Sheana recently summarized a very bad situation, in which a prolific and respected woman of color (brownfemipower)’s ideas (as expressed in her writing over the past few years) were intentionally or unintentionally appropriated without acknowledgment by a higher-profile white feminist writer (Amanda Marcotte) in an article for a major web site.
I have hesitated to throw my opinion into the ring in any of the public forums where this scandal has played out, because frankly I really don’t feel I have much of a right to an opinion. Here’s why, by way of a disclaimer.
1. Although I am a feminist and sympathize strongly with feminist and progressive viewpoints, I am not a regular reader of feminist blogs. I have major issues with time management and I seem to spend way too many hours just on the few fat acceptance blogs I do read and comment on, and now on my own blog. I think this says some bad things about me in terms of my work ethic, the extent to which I take up concerns that do not affect me personally, and how committed I am as an activist. I do pretty poorly on all counts. This is something I would like to change, but for now it would seem I’m a pretty apathetic feminist, and furthermore it seems like a poor choice to waltz into communities that I don’t participate in and drop my opinion out of thin air.
2. Not only that, I can’t even think of any books on feminist theory that I have ever read. So my contribution to the discussion would be nothing more than a “gut feeling,” and I’m sure blog owners need that like a hole in the head when even the intelligent, informed commenters seem to be having trouble navigating this situation.
3. Worst of all, I was not even aware of the extent or activity–or hell, let’s be honest, the existence–of feminist WOC blogging communities until maybe 6 months ago. I am a white woman living in a small, Northern, affluent, majority white town, and this is just more evidence that my understanding of the world is incredibly insular and my connections almost entirely to others just like me.
I did read BFP a little–I stayed up almost all night reading back entries and linking to other WOC feminist blogs when I saw a link to her blog a few months back, and I was introduced to numerous new, important, and (for me) radical ideas in so doing–but I kept forgetting to revisit her site and of course now that I can’t anymore, I deeply regret that. That I missed her remaining entries between then and when she took her site down is due to my own laziness and apathy, pure and simple.
4. Furthermore, Tara’s entry at Fatshionista several weeks ago was a reminder that the fat acceptance community in particular needs to examine its own shortcomings if it truly wants to understand why relatively few women of color identify with the FA movement. And if that is the case, and it seems it is, then surely I have the most work to do of any in the FA community. I recognize this, but certainly simple recognition of ignorance does not make me by any means qualified to do anything at this point other than try to listen and learn and improve.
But despite all this ignorance I do have an opinion on the current situation, so I figured my own space would be the best place to air it if I was going to.
First, even if Marcotte was being truly sincere and BFP’s work never entered her mind when she was preparing the AlterNet piece, upon being notified by one or a few or many readers of the piece that she had failed to credit an important writer in this arena for extensive earlier work, it seems to me that the only logical response, even if she did not believe that she had appropriated BFP’s ideas, would be to add a note directing readers to BFP’s site, acknowledging BFP’s work in this area, and encouraging readers to take advantage of this resource if they were interested in learning more (if AlterNet would not allow modification of the article after publication, perhaps a post on Marcotte’s blog to this effect would have been the best option).
Taking this further, perhaps Marcotte saw these concerns but did not agree that BFP was a definitive resource on the topic, which in the abstract I can understand. But since Marcotte herself is not considered an authority in this specific area either, it is hard to believe that she would not have developed an opinion in the course of her lit review about someone whose ideas were considered authoritative, and–upon recognizing that some readers felt she had not disclosed enough information about her sources–she could have alerted readers to the other author’s or authors’ work instead of or in addition to BFP’s if that seemed more appropriate to her. It seems to me that I have seen blog authors do exactly this on many occasions, and I see it as a service to readers as well as responsible credit to sources. Most book authors also seem to bend over backwards to acknowledge those who inspired their interest or blazed a trail for future work. Why wouldn’t you want your readers to learn as much as they could about a subject about which you are conducting advocacy or activism? Isn’t that the whole point?
It also seems to me that the previous point goes double when the author is white and is writing about a topic that is personal to many women of color and especially to immigrants. Again, speaking as an outsider and completely theoretically (so granted, it’s easy to say what I “would have” done if it were me–there is every likelihood I would have fucked up horribly), I can’t imagine any appropriate response upon being notified, “Hey, this woman of color or immigrant author already covered this topic in depth here and here” other than to provide a link to that content if you checked it out in good faith and agreed that the source was indeed important and germane. Or, perhaps it would be better to instead check the source’s reputation among other WOC researchers and authors to determine whether to link to it.
On the surface it seems not only arrogant to assume that you as a white woman could have a full understanding of a topic that is not the main focus of your research or writing and that is not personal to your own life, but also does a disservice to your readers by failing to expose them to the work of certain specialists who have created extensive prior writing on the topic and/or have extensive personal and direct knowledge of the topic. As an example that other commenters touched on, how many of us would accept as authoritative a male author’s one-off article about a feminist issue previously covered in depth by a female expert, especially if he refused to cite the woman’s prior work even in a “for additional reading, please see the work of…” sense?
In the same vein, even if Marcotte had disagreed with all of the above, it seems (and perhaps she did feel this way; it’s impossible for me to know, but she did not acknowledge this argument one way or the other in the Feministe thread (via The Rotund)) that she would have felt a personal or “on-principle” unease upon reading the WOC posts and comments pointing out that their writing on the article topic had largely been done on their own time, without pay, and without a widespread audience, and the publication of Marcotte’s article at least contributed to the appearance that a topic is not really important until a white woman decides to write about it. It seems to me, and again hindsight is 20/20, that crediting or at least mentioning BFP or other WOC authors whose work she saw as significant to the topic might have functioned as almost a tiny act of activism to strike back against a mainstream that gives white voices much more weight than WOC voices.
And despite the fact that BFP shut down her own site of her own volition, apparently to avoid becoming the center of a shitstorm, the end result is that her work is no longer there in the public domain–which I have to believe Marcotte, like so many others, would recognize as a problem. No, nobody forced BFP to take down her site, but in most cases it seems that we would recognize this as the outcome of a complicated chain of events–and we would recognize that race is most likely NOT incidental to that chain of events and its outcome, even if no individual explicitly “meant” to cause BFP any harm.
Finally, on sort of a personal note, it was extremely frustrating to me to see so many commenters pouring out their hearts, logic, pain, and anger on the Feministe thread, many making several separate posts in an earnest attempt to explain to Marcotte the many potential problems with what she had done–and then to see every response by Marcotte intentionally or unintentionally stonewalling, stubbornly focusing on outrage at what she said had initially been accusations of plagiarism by some (followed by so-called “moving of the goalposts” in her opinion to appropriation of ideas) and never any acknowledgment of the many valid points her critics made. I recognize that accusations of actual plagiarism are extremely serious, and I’m not disputing Marcotte’s right to defend herself and her academic integrity against such accusations. (So at least initially, I could see why she felt it necessary to make the debate “all about her” while she firmly and unequivocally established her statement that she had not plagiarized or engaged in academic dishonesty. As she argued, her reputation and career were potentially at stake.)
But honestly, most of the discussion as I saw it focused on larger issues of appropriation and the necessity of working with women of color, and I thought Marcotte’s insistence that she could not eventually move on and engage these larger issues because of the plagiarism accusations rang hollow. Again based on my woefully limited experience, I have often seen white feminists at least pay lip service to concerns about appropriation, failure to create communities that are inclusive of concerns of women of color (or to actively work to advance or at least not impede WOC communities), and failure to educate themselves (and to encourage their “followers” to educate themselves) about feminist issues affecting all women. I would have assumed Marcotte, at least in theory, shared those concerns, so it was jarring to me that she appeared to refuse to consider that these issues might be at play in this situation.
That may be the one good aspect of my ignorance of the dynamics and relationships associated with this situation–I don’t have any “goalposts” to move. It never would have occurred to me to accuse Marcotte of direct plagiarism in this instance, though I recognize that others view her actions that way and I respect their opinions. The things I find myself troubled about–again, as an outsider looking in–are the larger issues I tried to outline above.
I think to some extent this all boils down to whether talk of solidarity with WOC feminist communities among mostly-white feminist communities is mostly just that–talk–or whether we (they? Again, I am an apathetic fuck and I should hardly be speaking in lofty big-picture terms here on topics of which I know so little, but I can’t quite seem to get the words right) as white feminists are at a point where the talk shifts to action. I don’t really know the answer to that, but as a newbie who is struggling to understand concerns and anger that I have probably selfishly glossed over and dismissed in the past, I have found this situation and its aftermath discouraging, saddening, and a little scary.
April 14, 2008 at 1:12 am
if AlterNet would not allow modification of the article after publication, perhaps a post on Marcotte’s blog to this effect would have been the best option
That is what kills me about this whole thing. Amanda has not blogged herself about this whole affair at all, or acknowledged any sort of boundary violation in any way, anywhere. Her response was all, “MY article! MY ideas! MY book deal! Go away!” I expected much better from her, frankly.
Even acknowledging that the plagiarism charge is probably bogus — at the very least, nobody has any tangible proof that she stole BFP’s work on purpose, and even without conscious intent, the plagiarized work has to be almost word for word identical to the so-called stolen work, and the latter must itself be absolutely unique, for a plagiarism suit to have any merit — and even acknowledging that this might not have been an isolated incident and that there might well be people might have been pissed off at her for years and have been awaiting something fresh to “pounce on,” it really rankles that she continues to insist that the legitimate issues raised here don’t matter at all and that acknowledging them in any way would be caving in to “bullies.” Unless her detractors are coming to her house and threatening her, picketing her television appearances and pressuring her publisher to cancel her book deal, it’s a little specious to compare this to l’affaire Donohue. I suspect she knows that, but the plagiarism charges are so painful for her that she can’t hear anything else.
Or, I could just say, “what you said.”
April 14, 2008 at 9:51 am
“it really rankles that she continues to insist that the legitimate issues raised here don’t matter at all and that acknowledging them in any way would be caving in to ‘bullies.’”
I totally agree–I think this was the most frustrating part for me as a lurker watching people attempt to have a discussion with her. It was like all of the real, serious issues went out the window because a few people had gone too far with their accusations, and yes, plagiarism accusations are not something to throw around casually, but even so you would think she as a feminist would HAVE to see the aftermath of this as troubling, and care both that individual people were hurt and that the way things played out seemed very predictable in terms of who (the white person) had a published article at the end and who (the WOC) not only had never gotten paid for similar writing but now no longer had a blog. I would hope this would have troubled her as a feminist whether she felt that she had directly caused these outcomes or not, but the only thing I have ever seen her actually say is as you described.
As more evidence that I am talking WAY out of my butt, though, I think I saw references to the Donohue situation throughout the Feministe comments and I don’t even know what it is, so as you can see it’s real easy for me to say what others should have done while knowing next to nothing myself.
April 14, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Donohue is the worst kind of scum. What he did to Amanda, and to Melissa McEwan, is unconscionable.
In a nutshell: After Amanda and Melissa were hired by the John Edwards campaign — Amanda as a campaign blogger and Melissa in a technical capacity — he made a Wagnerian opera out of something Amanda had written on Pandagon (not in an official capacity for Edwards) that was allegedly profanely anti-Catholic (because the phrase “hot sticky spirit” was used) and the fact that Melissa called herself “The Queen Cunt of Fuck Mountain” (and refused to stand up and publicly repudiate Amanda), and waged a one-man campaign not only to get them both fired, but to sic his minions on both of them, going to their private residences AND THEIR FAMILIES’ and threatening them, to the point where they were forced to resign for the sake of the safety of all involved.
But it’s Melissa’s career that was harmed much more than Amanda’s; Amanda went on to get herself a book deal and greater fame, whereas Melissa has said she can’t even get a job now because people Google her and find the words “anti-Catholic bigot.” (Which, if you have any familiarity with Liss’s writings, you know is just NOT true at all.) Donohue is a pig, and not the good kind. A little PTSD on Amanda’s part is understandable after what she went through, but unless there’s another dimension to this case I’m not privy to, this is not in the same league as the Donohue crap, even if a few of the participants (not BFP herself) are a bit overzealous.
April 14, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I did hear about that now that you mention it, but I didn’t know all the details–I think I saw a post that touched on it, read what Amanda said that was supposedly so terrible, and I couldn’t believe there had been such an uproar, never mind that he was able to successfully damage both of their careers in that way. It seems like these days a determined group can get anyone blacklisted for anything as long as they yell about it loudly enough. That goes double if the comments can be spun as “anti-American” or “anti-Christian” and if you are a woman, a feminist, and/or a liberal. (Like the ridiculous uproar over the “Petraeus/Betray Us” ad.)
Anyway, Donohue’s actions as you describe them were unconscionable and it sounds like Amanda was 100% the victim in that case. But I agree, based on what little I know, that it doesn’t seem to bear a resemblance to this situation.
Thanks for the explanation.
April 15, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Or thinking back on my own comment… maybe rather than “that goes double” I mean it seems to be easy in today’s U.S. to get someone blacklisted ONLY if they are a liberal. I don’t see anyone being able to shut up or damage the career of, say, Ann Coulter, despite the fact that any random comment of hers on any given day is far more hate-filled than anything I’ve seen out of even the most “radical” progressive commentators.
April 15, 2008 at 5:06 pm
With the qualifier that I have a dog in this fight, here is some background.
http://aemeliae.vox.com/library/post/stop-stealing.html
http://problemchylde.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/dont-hate-appropriate/
http://daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2008/04/borrowing-and-appropriating_09.html
http://blogbullet.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/views-feminism-appropriation-and-racism/
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/04/10/this-has-not-been-a-good-week-for-woman-of-color-blogging/
http://plainsfeminist.blogspot.com/2008/04/more-on-what-happens-when-you-dont-cite.html
http://hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/if-its-stealing-youd-better-prove-it-on-amanda-marcotte-bfp-and-alternet/
http://fetchmemyaxe.blogspot.com/2008/04/taking-credit-for-other-peoples-isnt.html
http://offourpedestals.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/i-pledge-to-do-better-at-listening-to-women-of-color-just-not-these-women-of-color-because-theyre-mean/
http://plainsfeminist.blogspot.com/2008/04/seal-scandal.html
Make up your own mind.
April 15, 2008 at 5:17 pm
I didn’t.
Again, with full acknowledgment that I have a dog in the fight, Amanda noted that she “didn’t see the problem” with the LeBron=Kong cover, and dismissed advocacy for public censure on Rush Limbaugh’s calling CONGRESSWOMAN McKinney a “pickaninny” as a “First Amendment” issue.
I have a comment on Deanna’s blog where I made reference to the “What do we do?” question in the larger context with the same response (grammar be d*mned) that I offered when we were discussing the issue of Tara’s article on Kate’s blog.
http://www.deannazandt.com/2008/04/14/higher-learning-being-an-uncomfortable-feminist-in-2008/#comment-3145
But yeah. When the “mainstream” community says “Cultural appropriation is wrong!” but won’t come down on a prominent white feminist author that just pulled a textbook example of the exact same crap — and I’ll leave the “but I didn’t mean to” discussion for another day; I went into the difference between “intentional” and “negligent” infringement on Hugo’s blog; that’s why there’s a distinction between the two types of damage in the first place; if a drunk runs into your car and totals it you don’t let him/her off the hook just because s/he “didn’t mean it” — it makes the “mainstream” handwringing look more than a touch hypocritical.
But I’ve said the same thing probably 10 times in the past five days. And probably a thousand times in the past five years.
As Apoc says in The Matrix:
“Still nuthin’.”
April 15, 2008 at 5:24 pm
One more thing and then I’ll get off it.
Actually, that makes it worse. Amanda admitted herself on the Feministe blog that the first time she heard about these issues was when she heard Nina Perales from MALDEF speak on them, and on Hugo’s blog there were references to Asian feminists who also had research out on the topic.
My private opinion is that as a white (upper)class feminist who has never had a family member involved in the issue, Amanda was completely underqualified to do the complex level of intersectional analysis that was demonstrated in that AlterNet article on this particular issue.
But as I said on Jack’s blog:
http://blogbullet.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/views-feminism-appropriation-and-racism/
April 15, 2008 at 5:30 pm
“My private opinion is that as a white (upper)class feminist who has never had a family member involved in the issue, Amanda was completely underqualified to do the complex level of intersectional analysis that was demonstrated in that AlterNet article on this particular issue.”
littlem, as I said I’m not really qualified to say so, but FWIW this is absolutely the sense I get as I look into this further.
And thank you so much for all of the links and additional background information you provided. I know it took time for you to put that together and I will definitely be studying this info.
April 15, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Be that as it may,
the textbook definition of “infringement” under no less than Title 17 U.S.C. is NOT “word for word copying”, to paraphrase other commenters here. It is comprised of “access” and “substantial similarity” to the work in question.
(The arguments are then what constitutes said access and similarity.)
Then, there’s this:
http://problemchylde.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/dont-hate-appropriate/#comments
Also, this:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/04/10/this-has-not-been-a-good-week-for-woman-of-color-blogging/
So, once again, it’s not just about BFP’s ideas not being “sufficiently important” to credit. It’s not just one person whose ideas were appropriated, and it’s not just an isolated incident but part of a pattern that was first raised as an issue in first wave feminism — I studied it in undergrad, for God’s sake — and clearly we’re still dealing with it in, what is this, the third wave?
April 15, 2008 at 5:59 pm
/rant.
Also, sorry. I didn’t see that the other comment posted.
April 20, 2008 at 3:06 am
Good post, spacedcowgirl. I think your opinion is reasoned, compassionate, and thoughtful. I haven’t been hanging about on the big feminist blogs for a year or so now, but this sounds like a culmination of issues. I’m really sad to see BFP go, and hope she’ll reinvent her blog again.
Backing up a bit from the (very serious) issue in play, I wonder if there’s a meta lesson about leaders and leadership. It’s often those who lay down the clear line of Right and Wrong who have the strongest and most clear voice in any movement.
Marcotte can be funny, wry, and she hits her message hard; and I imagine at least part of her writing voice is her confidence in her viewpoint. This can be a good thing, but it also can really be polarizing. Kos is similar. All of us that are activists are activists because we’ve had pain.
But you can’t force other people’s pain to fit your understanding of it.
I find it interesting that even without Big Media, we tend to find the polarizers. I think, looking back at my reading of Pandagon, what attracted me was that mouthy, clear line that helped me clear the doubts from myself. But it ended up being the same thing that caused me to leave. Pandagon, when I was reading, made its bread and butter in finding stuff out in the world to pull to shreds. It was instructional deconstruction. But that sort of shredding becomes harder to cope if you find yourself on the wrong side of it, and if the opinion of the community matters to you. (That old canard the “feminist card” comes up I think because those of us who aren’t leaders, on a given issue, sometimes need community.)
Interestingly, thinking on Shapely Prose, what makes me most comfortable there is the more personal perspective, and the seeming willingness to be pulled up short and think about things. Of course – and here I have sympathy for all of the blogging activists out there – how many hits do they take before they just have to say “ah, whatever”? I’m thinking on KH and her interchanges with Dan Savage or Liss with the Edwards campaign. How many of those hits can you take in the solar plexus before you just decide everybody sucks and is coming for you? I don’t know. I couldn’t do it, I suppose.
April 20, 2008 at 3:18 am
I should make clear that last paragraph wasn’t about the issue at hand. I was wondering into “why people stop listening” territory.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the women of colour bloggers and their supporters. I didn’t read this past storm, but I do know that there’s been tension for awhile between people who could be allies.
Which is not at all the same as what happened to Liss, or even between KH and Savage.
Just to be totally clear. I’d gone meta.
April 20, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Arwen, those are very interesting questions. (I agree, I am thinking far afield of Amanda herself now, to just web community dynamics in general.) I am sometimes amazed at how flexible the SP folks are as far as considering new viewpoints, or changing things if they feel they were wrong (one tiny example I remember is Kate taking Dietgirl off her blogroll, even though she does like and admire her, when a reader pointed out that her blog didn’t really fit the no-diet mission of SP). I also sometimes wonder if the other shoe will ever drop, where you get someone who seemed so reasonable to start with and all of a sudden they’re an autocrat and start taking everything personally (which, I mean, it would be almost impossible not to–it’s their work and their place and although I have thought before about how stuff like the Dan Savage situation with Kate could really wear a person down over time, I never in my selfishness considered that that might harden a person and affect their “ability to lead”) and they apparently stop listening to everyone altogether, and their community implodes.
Again as just an example I know of, there was a community started to provide an alternative to Television Without Pity and at first everything was awesome and none of that crazy TWoP stuff was happening, and then gradually the new place became just as bad, and a huge rift developed between the moderators and yet another new “offshoot” community that formed, complete with drama over the moderator using two different identities and stuff that if you had asked at the beginning, I’m sure nobody could ever have guessed it would turn out that way.
Anyway, all that to say that those are very interesting questions you raised. Maybe years of being a “leader” have some bearing on Amanda’s ability to react to the current situation along with other factors, although of course who knows.
April 20, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Hmm, I guess I did a semicolon and then a parentheses and got a smiley that makes my comment look jauntier than I intended it to…
April 20, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Heh. It’s like the old Monty Python joke – The Judean People’s Front – no, the People’s Front of Judea… SPLITTERS!
I’ve been thinking on this further, and I wonder if it’s also this: when we’re finding politics we need to learn, we sometimes find and try approaches to the problem that we might not otherwise be inclined towards. If we were a movement of one.
Because really, Liss has taken a lot on the chin and is one of the listening-ist.
Anyway, I love the voices and greatly respect and am thankful for the bloggers at SP, but I think in some ways we really all are Kate Harding: there’s a really active fat-o-sphere – and Rachel and Meowser and the Rotund are also in the forefront, and I’ve been to everyone’s blog at one time or another. And here we are at your blog having a totally other discussion.
Having the fatosphere feed really has made it a constant democratic conversation, and I think this is very good and Meowser’s a genius. (She’s the creator, yes?)
I would encourage it for all interlinked communities, because it’s a constant carnival that does not wind down.
Plus, SP *is* really very good at listening even as the crap has rolled at them: I’ve seen fillyjonk apologize after she’s hosed a concern troll who’s turned out to be for real. That’s a very good thing. You know that the fat haters must be thicker than flies on dung and I get slightly verklempt just guessing what’s in the moderation pen.
‘Course, with issues like race, I find it hard to begin to grasp why there’s an argument. We live in a racist society, so of COURSE BfP (and Sylvia, and Human Beams, and blac(k)ademic, and all the other PoC I don’t know who are out there talking about gender and race and immigration and people and definitions) — of COURSE their contributions are being subsumed by the hegemonic dialogue. If you’re a progressive who has found yourself being That Guy, even if you didn’t mean to and didn’t know, I would think that a basic understanding of privilege would mean…
…well, it would mean, to me, following the response you just outlined.
April 21, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I think your whole comment is so insightful. I was gonna quote stuff but basically I just agree 100%.
I agree, it is great that there is a little less “centralized control” in FA.
May 1, 2008 at 12:52 am
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