I was catching up on some posts going back to International No Diet Day on May 6, and I found that I was panicking at the thought of signing the important and excellent INDD Pledge (via NotDieting.com and SizeNet). Now, you might think that this is because I’m on a diet, and the idea of a day without point-counting and pitting foods against each other in a good vs. bad grudge match would freak me out. For the typical dieter (that is, the typical woman) I suppose that would be the problem. But as I thought about it further, I realized that this was not really what was bothering me.
So what is my problem, exactly? The pledge states “I will feed myself when I am hungry.” When I first started Weight Watchers, I didn’t always do that–I spent a lot of time hungry. But nowadays, I pretty much do (over time I’ve increased the number of points I eat). The strictures of the diet these days for me pretty much fall in the areas of stopping eating when I would prefer to have a larger portion, not snacking at night because I’m out of points, choosing an option that is lower in points just because it is lower in points (like having a skim latte when I would rather have a regular mocha or something), making sure I exercise, etc. I know a lot of women who have been dieting their whole lives routinely ignore their hunger and are literally starving themselves, but I wouldn’t put myself in that category. So feeding myself when I am hungry is not the problem (though I have spent much of my life from a young age on a diet, so certainly I have not always fed my hunger). It’s the ongoing struggle not to feed myself when I am not hungry that is the source of a lot of deep-seated shame and guilt for me. That is, I am afraid that I would not be able to keep the part of the pledge that says “I promise to feed myself when I am hungry,” because I would be feeding myself inappropriately all the time, hungry or not.
When I comment about my “failed” experiences with intuitive eating, I think a lot of folks tend to assume that I’m some kind of IE newbie. That if I just “stick with it” long enough, I’ll find that I prefer healthier foods and only eat a half a cookie and oh look, there’s cake in the office and I didn’t notice because I don’t even like that yucky supermarket cake! (If I sound mocking about this, it’s not because I have a problem with people who eat this way; it’s just because I’m bitter that I have never arrived at this point.) I mean, sure, sometimes I don’t eat a piece of cake in the office because it’s yucky supermarket cake. But to be totally honest, I pass up the cake in those instances because I don’t want to expend the points or because I know I’m not supposed to like yucky supermarket cake, not because I actually don’t like it. In point of fact I do like it and would pretty much always rather have a piece than not, regardless of whether I am hungry, unless it has that weird Cool Whip-type frosting on it (as opposed to the oh-so-much-less-weird fake “buttercream” made solely of petroleum products, I suppose). The same goes for Girl Scout Cookies, donuts, fast food, and other various whipping boys of HAES that supposedly, once you start doing IE, you end up discovering are actually gross and you don’t even want them.
But the fact is, I bet I have known about Geneen Roth for at least 17 or 18 years now, and Overcoming Overeating only slightly less than that. I have given various IE philosophies a pretty sincere and lengthy try, and have revisited some of them more than once. (Though I have to say that attempting to “stock up” by buying cookies with my own money and stashing them in my closet in my parents’ house when I was in high school didn’t work so well.) And even though this concept should probably be meaningless (there is no real way to do IE “wrong”), they haven’t worked for me. Having to constantly check in with my hunger à la Geneen Roth, the Weigh Down Diet (OK, that link not only plays sound, but Gwen Shamblin is way more scary on video than I realized, so click at your own risk), or The Seven Secrets of Slim People (warning: diet book, as if you couldn’t tell) makes me crazy. I had “mouth hunger” all the time on OO and gained 75 pounds (part of this was “diet rebound” that I would have regained anyway; part of it was from frequently stuffing myself), yet I felt insane when I tried to ignore mouth hunger and eat from stomach hunger only. I just was not happy when I was attempting to eat intuitively. Part of the problem on OO was something I could probably navigate a bit better now; I have OCD, which I didn’t know at the time, and I was tormented by trying to determine whether I was “really” feeling mouth hunger or not. And the more anxious I got about it, the more the words “you’re hungry” would appear in my brain and I would feel like I “should” eat, but I think now that it was really just an intrusive thought. I tend to have a lot of trouble with stuff like that (the thought will come into my brain that “Wouldn’t it suck if you started thinking [x] all the time?”, and then I do start thinking x all the time), and perhaps now I would be better equipped to see the “false” mouth hunger for what it was.
But I think the crux of the matter is that, to me, being prohibited from eating when I’m not hungry–being told that I can’t simply eat for pleasure, because it tastes good, because I’m stressed, or because it’s there and I like it, which are all reasons I like to eat even when I’m not hungry–feels just as onerous as a diet. So I figure that if I’m going to have to exist in a way that feels uncomfortable for me, I might as well add a few additional restrictions and make it a diet as well, in order to keep my weight down and help me feel more “socially acceptable.” (Note that I don’t think diets actually function this way for everyone–many fat people can eat far less than I eat now and not lose any weight.) That’s the ugly truth of the matter. I know a lot of people get discouraged with IE because they falsely believe that it will help them lose weight, and when it doesn’t, they go back to dieting. But in my case, I didn’t care if I lost weight or not, at least in my more recent attempts; I was just desperate to break the hold food had on me and not have to obsess about it all the time anymore, because it was exhausting me. And I still found the approaches uncomfortable and unworkable for some reason.
I’m not saying I have the answer and the answer is that IE is stupid and doesn’t work and everyone needs to plan out every bite that goes in their mouths. To the contrary, I don’t really think there’s any way for IE to be “wrong,” because how else could we have evolved to eat except in response to our hunger? I’m not happy that what “works for me” right now feels so imperfect and punishing sometimes (mostly on weigh-in day). But for now, it feels like a fucking DIET is much less stressful than my IE attempts ever were, and that is disheartening. I feel broken.
Then there is the possibility that I am overthinking this, and me now is me “doing IE.” It’s not like I dislike the foods I’m eating now; most of the time, I like them very much. I do like vegetables and whole grains and lean proteins. Just now for dinner I had some cottage cheese, dried cherries, fake Meijer brand organic Ritz crackers (they’re called Applause–isn’t that cute?), frozen mixed vegetables, and dry romaine lettuce (stupid anti-reflux diet again) and it was all delicious, even the plain lettuce. I am a good cook and cook healthy, tasty meals on a regular basis. I eat desserts and more “non-diet” meals (like I’ll order a hamburger and fries if I really want one, though I do record the points) on the weekends fairly often, though I’m not sure how much of that is me really wanting those foods every time, and how much is the fact that I’ve gotten used to the idea that I can’t have them during the week but am “allowed” on the weekend. In short, I don’t have a lot of forbidden foods or food hang-ups anymore.
To some extent I even “get” and have experienced the part of IE where you eventually get sick of eating junk all the time and start craving “real” food; however–and this is a big however–at that point, I still want the junk in addition to the real food. If I ate everything I wanted all day long, I would be eating A LOT. And that is where I don’t consider myself a “normal eater.”
To try and give a better example of how this feels to me: If I weren’t dieting, obviously I would rather, say, go into Panera and order a sandwich and a cookie, or whatever I’m in the mood for that day, than whatever my pre-approved lower-points-value lunch is. But in most cases, I would then like to eat that entire sandwich (or half sandwich or whatever it is) and cookie, even though I’ll probably be a little too full at the end of it. What I think most better-adjusted IE’ers would do–that is, order the sandwich, skip the cookie because they know they’ll be too full for it, then eat only the part of the sandwich they need to curb their hunger–really doesn’t seem to be me for some reason. If I’m going to not “get to” eat very many calories, I’d rather those calories be spread over a lot of bites of something I don’t like quite as well, rather than just a few bites of something I love. If that makes any sense. It’s almost more painful only to get a little of something delicious (the sandwich and cookie) than it is to skip the delicious thing altogether and just get a slightly less acceptable alternative that I can eat a lot of or that sort of keeps my mouth busy for a while. So I order my low-point lunch, eat it all, and generally enjoy it quite a bit. And on the weekends, I order a hamburger and fries, eat it all, and feel guilty because nobody else at the table finished their meal.
To be totally honest, it actually scares and disgusts me a little how “healthy” my outlook seems to be these days–unlike many I see who are new to FA and tragically mired in hating themselves and their bodies, I’m no longer starving myself, I no longer think 1,200 calories per day is necessarily an adequate amount of food for a grown woman, I eat a variety of foods and pretty much no “healthy” or “unhealthy” food is off-limits in my mind. I have been on the path of learning to love my body for a long time, and I guess some might go so far as to say that I’m mostly “cured” of diet mentality, disordered eating, and body obsession; certainly I have cast off these pressures to a hundred times greater an extent than many. I feel good about my body now, and at a size 22/24 I still felt pretty good about it and certainly believed that I deserved respect as a human being and was not a lesser person because of my weight. Again, I was not always so “enlightened,” and these are all good things.
But if I have truly come so far in my FA journey, my greatest fear, and the only thing I can conclude at the moment, is that my “unnatural” eating desires really are, then, separate issues from feminism, fat acceptance, backlash to dieting, or any other psychological or social force. Maybe I’m just hiding behind pressures that other fat women face that I am really not facing anymore. Maybe I don’t really have any problems other than my own weakness. Maybe what it comes down to is that I am just a greedy, hedonistic pig who needs to control herself in order to achieve the level of self-discipline that most fat and thin people exercise naturally (maybe they pass up foods they want all the time, and that’s just a par for the course thing that everyone else does but I am too undisciplined to handle). And I am so afraid that I won’t be able to keep controlling myself forever.
With all that, I still dream of a make-believe world where nobody attaches moral value to eating or being fat, so that I could “stuff myself” to my heart’s content–even if it wasn’t from hunger–and not have to feel bad about it. The guilt I feel is so tiresome that I just wish I could put it down for one day, but if I did, I would eat and eat and then I would feel even worse when I was plunked back down in the real world the following morning.
I hope by this time next year I’ll be ready to sign the INDD Pledge. I’m not feeling so great about it at the moment, but as I mentioned, I have made a lot of progress in a lot of areas. So we’ll see.
May 15, 2008 at 8:14 pm
“there is no real way to do IE “wrong””
I’m sure I’ve been DOIN IT RONG since I heard about it the first time.
Gosh darn. There’s that comparing thing again.
Whoa, there, Judgy McJudgerson. We’re … like … venting now, right?? Right????
Perhaps Pluto. I’m sure it’s feeling sulky since it’s been kicked off the “Real Planets” list. I’m sure I would.
(Though I’m not sure who thought kicking the planet of Hades and revenge off the list was a good idea.)
May 15, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Yeah, I guess it is venting. But I can’t seem to go through any discussion of eating without comparing myself negatively to all the “normal eaters.” Bleah.
Hahahaha!! That is excellent. Yes, I am sure that Pluto is angry and petulant and would certainly consider becoming The Planet Where Eating Has No Moral Component. I’m totally moving there. I like the cold anyway.
May 16, 2008 at 11:11 am
[...] you will succeed. I’m not trying to get all intuitive eating on anybody, and in fact, here is a fabulous post I found the other day that voices my true (negative) opinion of that idea. But [...]
May 16, 2008 at 11:32 am
But for now, it feels like a fucking DIET is much less stressful than my IE attempts ever were, and that is disheartening. I feel broken.
Well, I am an IE newbie, and the sad fact I have just started to understand is that IE is harder than a diet. Because diets give you a simple set of instructions to follow. Unlike IE, where there is direction provided from an external source, where you are required to constantly do self-introspection, and where you fight the battle alone.
I have no words of wisdom, only commiseration.
May 16, 2008 at 11:37 am
Uh-oh. I think that trackback may be a sign that I am on the wrong path here.
(edit: I mean by not embracing intuitive eating more fully. No offense to the poster who linked to me–I am truly in favor of people eating in whatever way is right for them–but for myself, although I have my doubts and concerns about IE, I have even bigger doubts about the idea that a Boca burger and a salad is a big meal that you would need to justify or feel guilty about).
May 16, 2008 at 11:41 am
Thank you for letting me know that I am not alone, ilgb. For what it’s worth, I know it is a hard and scary thing you’re doing by starting to eat intuitively, but I admire you greatly for doing it.
May 16, 2008 at 6:18 pm
SCG, this post really hit home for me, and the part about a diet being easier than IE?
Yeah. That’s exactly it. Pretty much every single word you said is what I’ve been thinking for a while now.
I have nothing to add. I have no advice to give. I just want you to know you’re completely not alone, and you are way braver than me for saying this.
May 17, 2008 at 12:52 am
“The same goes for Girl Scout Cookies, donuts, fast food, and other various whipping boys of HAES that supposedly, once you start doing IE, you end up discovering are actually gross and you don’t even want them.”
Who said that? This is unique for everyone. I discovered that while I still absolutely adore Thin Mints, I hate Samoas, which were my favorite cookie before. I’ve also discovered I’d much rather eat bakery fresh cookies or cakes as opposed to packaged ones. But believe me – I eat cake and I love it. Twinkies are gross, though. That I’ll admit – but to someone else doing IE, they may be fluffy creme filled bits of heaven.
“But I think the crux of the matter is that, to me, being prohibited from eating when I’m not hungry–being told that I can’t simply eat for pleasure, because it tastes good, because I’m stressed, or because it’s there and I like it, which are all reasons I like to eat even when I’m not hungry–feels just as onerous as a diet.”
You aren’t prohibited from eating when you’re not hungry on IE. The book itself references that sometimes you’ll eat something just because it tastes good – and that’s part of enjoying life, enjoying eating. My own therapist told me that recently when trying out a new restaurant she allowed herself a few extra bites than she needed to feel full – just because it tasted good. This is okay. The point is recognizing the fullness, recognizing WHY you want to eat what you do.
“What I think most better-adjusted IE’ers would do–that is, order the sandwich, skip the cookie because they know they’ll be too full for it, then eat only the part of the sandwich they need to curb their hunger–really doesn’t seem to be me for some reason.”
It doesn’t necessarily work this way. Sometimes, I’ll order an entree and intentionally save room for the dessert I’m eyeing. Other times, I decide the entree is too delicious and I want to use what “room” I have left to finish it – and screw dessert. I can do that because I know it’s there next time.
I can also leave most of my fries after eating just a few. Not because I don’t enjoy those few – I do. But I’d rather eat the sandwich or fish or burger or whatever.
I found your post from another blog, and expected it to be a bash on IE… and it’s not, at all. However, as some before have mentioned, you can’t be successful with IE as long as you compare yourself to everyone else. It’s such a highly individualized process. There’s no “right” or “wrong” to the journey, and it IS harder than dieting – and as my therapist always says, sometimes you need to diet again, even once you try IE. Sometimes the need just comes back too strong and once that happens, IE is doomed anyway.
You mention “normal” eaters, but to be perfectly honest, the more I do this the more I realize that there are very, very few of those. Don’t mistake eating in a way that you identify as “right” as “normal.”
You have to do what’s right for you… but I think you’re still not closed off to IE totally, and I’d just recommend that you keep thinking about it. I suspect that someday it might just be the right time for you to try it again and have it feel right.
May 17, 2008 at 12:55 am
PS. I do get the concept of doing IE “right.” I said to my therapist this week, laughing as the words came out because as I said it, I realized it was ridiculous, “I feel like I’m not doing it well enough. Like I need to try harder or something.”
She also laughed and assured me that the part of my brain saying there was no “right” or “wrong” was correct and reminded me of how far I’ve come (no binges since December, feeling my “fullness” about 90% of the time and my hunger about 80% of the time). I needed to realize that I was being a bit silly… but the mentality of “right” or working enough is so ingrained from years of dieting that I sometimes still lose sight of the fact that I’m no longer on a diet and things are far less black and white.
May 17, 2008 at 2:39 pm
goodwithcheese–Truly, thank you so much for saying that. It really does help a lot just to know that I’m not alone.
Juliet–Thank you for such a well-thought-out response. I always appreciate observations/advice from people who are navigating IE successfully because I really do feel like it is the simplest, most logical way to eat, and potentially the most guilt-free. I especially appreciated you making this point: “The book itself references that sometimes you’ll eat something just because it tastes good – and that’s part of enjoying life, enjoying eating.” Do you also feel like it becomes more… well, intuitive… over time?
I think part of what I find so exhausting about all this is the feeling like I have to constantly be checking in with myself, going “Am I full? How about now?” Whereas the name, intuitive eating, makes me feel like it should come easier than that.
(Of course I am reminded by this discussion that although something may be potentially rewarding, that does not mean it is necessarily easy.) I think I am just tired of thinking about food so much, whether on a diet, or when eating compulsively, or when trying to eat intuitively. It seems like you can’t get away from it. Anyway, thanks, everyone, for your support and perspectives.
May 19, 2008 at 3:00 pm
my recent experience with intuitive eating suggests that it starts with a period of overeating, but that that truly does level off. i really identify with your description, spacedcowgirl, of eating constantly if i had my druthers. it’s hard to let yourself off the hook for that, but it truly is possible. i don’t know, i just think hunger is weird and eating to satisfy it, even if it feels like eating too much, is easier on my brain than not eating.
and i still love processed food. whatever; it’s frequently delicious.
May 19, 2008 at 3:08 pm
LN, thanks for sharing your experience. This part gives me hope: “it’s hard to let yourself off the hook for that, but it truly is possible.” Thanks again.
May 19, 2008 at 4:41 pm
oh, you’re welcome! btw, i found your blog from one of your comments at Shapely Prose–i’m so glad you decided to start it. you’re one of my favorite commenters over there!
May 19, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Thank you so much! I really appreciate the kind words!
May 22, 2008 at 10:41 am
Wow, Spacedcowgirl, get out of my head!
Truly, everything you’ve said is all the stuff I’ve been pondering for the past few weeks. I’m very, very new to both the fatosphere and FA as a concept, although I’ve always been fat. I’m currently on WW, too, although the things I’ve been reading at Shapely Prose, Fatfu, and Fatshonista in the past week or so have really been giving me second thoughts about how wise it is to spend $40+ a month on a process that is nearly guaranteed to fail, if the stats that FA quotes can be believed (and my previous experiences with WW, where I successfully lost about half the weight I wanted to lose but then regained all of it plus an additional 18 pounds over the following two years, followed by myriad attempts to replicate the initial success and failing, lead me to say yes, that is true) AND makes me miserably obsessive about food in the process. However, I can really relate to what you said about wanting to eat constantly all day long, whether I’m hungry or not, and often continuing to the point past full just because it tastes so damn good.
I’m also guilty of some massive hoarding issues, due mostly to childhood attempts by my fat-phobic grandmother to shame me thin (starting at as young as 5!) and the fact that my husband is a chow hound as well, who will, the moment I put down my fork, ask “Can I help you with that?” when I would REALLY like is to put it away and enjoy it another time, which I tell him, but always makes me feel like kind of a bad person for wanting to keep it for myself. So, I can really relate when you say, essentially, that you would probably be obsessive with or without dieting. I probably would be, too.
For me, the solution I keep coming back to is therapy. I think I need to get to the bottom of whatever it is inside me that makes me compulsive about food, to the point where I literally cannot deny a craving no matter how hard a try. I also need to wrap myself around the “it will always be there tomorrow/another time/the next time I come here” mentality, so that I can go to a resturant that serves an appetizer that I love and NOT GET IT if I’m not hungry enough for an app and a main dish, or get it instead of the main dish if it’s substantial enough for my hunger. I know these behaviors are emotionally and not physically motivated, but that doesn’t make it any easier to stop.
On the other hand, I have been to two separate therapists (for other issues, not food issues) who have told me that the magic cure to all my life’s ills was to lose weight. So, we’ll see how successful I am at finding a therpist who can help without pushing WL, I guess.
(BTW, I know this comment is horrendously long and rife with run-on sentances, so sorry for using your blog to examine my naval so thoroughly. Great post, though!)
May 22, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Danielle–thank you so much for your comment. It sounds like we have had a lot of the same experiences. In some ways I wonder how my head doesn’t explode from being still basically on a diet (although I’ve sort of modified “the plan” beyond all recognition, I do still go to meetings, which I kind of hate about myself), yet being pretty much 100% on board with FA, but somehow I seem to be able to handle the cognitive dissonance, which I take as a sign that someday I might get to the point of being able to dump WW entirely. I definitely recommend continuing to visit Shapely Prose, Fatshionista, etc., because I think what they have to say is so important. (Not to enable time-wasting or anything, but there are tons of excellent posts in the Shapely Prose archives too.
)
It’s very interesting what you say about therapy. I’m not sure if this is going to make any sense, but I identify somewhat with a commenter at Shapely Prose a long time ago who said that WW had actually helped her normalize her eating, and I think then she was able to move on from it somehow and so she was wondering why she couldn’t mention it on the site. I think it was sweet machine who told her, and I totally agreed, that it was great that that was her experience, but for every 1 person like her who were able to somehow use WW as a tool to develop a healthier approach to food, there were going to be many more who had only slipped further into food obsession, disordered eating, yo-yo dieting, etc. by attempting WW. In other words, that WW (or any diet) on average is actually destructive to people’s health and their relationship with food. Which I wholeheartedly believe and agree with. I am certain I would be less fat and much healthier and happier today had I never started calorie-counting as a kid. Lord knows every diet I’ve ever undertaken has resulted in me gaining the weight back plus some extra, similar to your observation.
I feel, however, like I am one of the other people who was able to somehow use WW to arrive at a more comfortable place with my eating. I binge much less now and have fewer disordered eating behaviors (in my possibly warped opinion). This is because–I think largely thanks to the FA community–I am for whatever reason able to take a lot of what is said in my meetings and a lot of what I read in program materials with a grain of salt. I think it helps that my leader isn’t too in-your-face either.
The problem is, I can’t seem to “escape” the program and make any further progress with my relationship to food. And I still feel that the destructive parts of Weight Watchers (including, of course, most importantly, the focus on the scale) really are destructive and it is in the best interest of my health to get away from them. But when I try to eat intuitively, all of a sudden I’m stuffing myself again and feeling all crazy. It’s like there is no happy medium between point counting and eating myself sick. I will most likely gain the weight back either way, but whether I do or not, I don’t want to lose the understanding of how much I need to feel full, or the fact that I feel better physically when I’m not overeating (overeating feels like such a self-punishing thing sometimes), and honestly these are areas that I have actually improved in because of WW.
Sooo…. here is where a therapist could possibly come in, as I mull over your comment. I am seeing a therapist now (not focusing on eating at the moment, because I often feel like I “have everything under control” these days–yeah, right), so I could either work with her to transition from WW to a workable IE strategy; or the Center for Eating Disorders is also reachable from where I am–I had a few sessions there before I changed jobs and couldn’t fit it into my schedule anymore–and from what I can tell they are great and I bet would also help me “transition” off WW. I don’t know why I never thought of that until I read your comment; I guess there’s a dichotomy in my head too, like either I’m on WW and “OK,” or eating compulsively and “screwed up.” And I know intellectually that that is not true (hello, weeks where I overeat and then cry because I feel like such an out-of-control pig, or let the scale dictate my mood, or restrict to “make up for” a “bad” weekend, or feel bloated because I’m choosing too many foods with excessive fiber content to keep the points down… these things are pretty screwed up too), so why am I acting like it is?
I agree that some therapists are screwed-up assholes themselves, though. I went to multiple therapists as a kid (my mom was worried because I thought poorly of myself and was so shy and anxious around other kids), and the only actual advice I can remember getting from one of them was to eat Shredded Wheat and Bran for lunch. Another one encouraged me in my belief that it was a worthwhile goal to have a “perfect day” on whatever diet I was on at that time (I could always look back on a day and find something I did “wrong,” and felt like if I could just “get control” for one day then I could get thin, so I pinned way too much importance on the idea of being “perfect”). When I know there were plenty of actual things wrong with me other than being fat that they could have worked with me on, except I didn’t have enough awareness to drive the therapy myself since I was, you know, a kid. Gee, that was a good use of my parents’ money. If I sent my (hypothetical) fat kid in to a therapist because she was crying all the time, getting stomachaches and anxiety, and felt terrible about herself as a human being, I would not be pleased if she came out with diet instructions. But at least the therapists I went to seemed all too willing to encourage me in my mistaken idea that being fat was my problem, and if I could just fix that then I would be happy. Gah. Nowadays I am a more discerning therapy customer, at least I hope.
Anyway, thanks again for your comment. It gave me a lot to think about.
May 22, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Oh, and navel-gazing is always more than welcome here! And I’ll see your “horrendously long” and raise you–well, whatever my monster of a comment is. “Long” doesn’t seem to mean the same thing to me as it does to other people. So no worries whatsoever.
I will take the opportunity here to state that it is henceforth my policy that long, rambling comments are welcomed and encouraged here from all who wish to post them, other than mean tiresome jerks. Mean tiresome jerks are not welcome here period, though, so that shouldn’t be a problem.
May 25, 2008 at 12:34 am
I’m kind of feeling the same way. Everybody says after you’ve been doing IE for a while, the urge to binge on junk food is supposed to stop, but I’ve been doing it for a year now, and, well, it happens. Like you, there are some days when I don’t have cake because I don’t really feel like cake and know I can have it any time, but a lot more days when I eat it even though I don’t really want it because it’s cake! And times when I’m not hungry but I really, really want some potato chips, so I have some and end up eating way more than I need to feel satisfied. And just in general, I feel like I’m always snacking when I’m not hungry and eating past full, and wasn’t that supposed to stop at some point?
I think part of it is my personality. I remember one gorgeous night when my fiance and I were planning to take a lovely evening walk down to a restaurant, have dinner, and then go see a movie. Then I took too long to get ready, so we didn’t have time for the walk and I absolutely freaked out, because what if I wasted this chance to take a lovely evening walk and I never had the opportunity again? Which of course was ridiculous… the weather is not that nice here but I certainly had no reason to think there would never be a nice evening again! But that’s just the way I am, and I think I apply the same thing with food. If I’m eating something I like, I have to finish it, because what if I never get the chance to have that food again? I think that’s where the eating past full mostly comes from, but I don’t know where the snacking when I’m not hungry comes from. And I don’t know how to stop it without making myself feel deprived and ending up binging.
May 26, 2008 at 3:05 pm
I agree–I have the same problem, and it’s very frustrating.
Yes, EXACTLY. This is exactly how I feel. Like the snacking and overeating are coming from the same place in some ways but a different place in others. But it’s like there’s no way to win. Honestly if it didn’t feel so crappy to be overfull and sluggish and if I didn’t feel like I was abusing my body and my health by overeating (and this is near and dear to my heart at the moment because I have just spent about a week and a half eating in the crappiest possible way and, not surprisingly, I feel like utter crap), I would just accept that I was going to be fat and eat in whatever way seemed the least stressful at the time, which would probably include overeating. But it does feel bad (and is probably bad for you) to overeat, so I can’t really use that strategy. At the same time, when I restrict myself, I feel better physically when it’s going well, but I also often feel like I’m hanging on by my fingernails and am one day away from starting to binge again. And I beat myself up a lot too, which is not cool. I really wish my relationship with food were not so screwed up.
May 26, 2008 at 9:50 pm
The same goes for Girl Scout Cookies, donuts, fast food, and other various whipping boys of HAES that supposedly, once you start doing IE, you end up discovering are actually gross and you don’t even want them.
I didn’t catch this post before because I was out of town, but I consider myself an intuitive eater of long standing and I eat ALL of those things from time to time. Most IE people I know do. Perhaps if I was really wealthy I’d be going for yellowtail sashimi and flying to New York every weekend for the coal oven pizza I can’t get here in Oregon, but being of modest means I have to make do with what’s available, and when Do-Si-Dos are in season you’d better believe I’ll eat them. And sometimes I want a Filet O’Fish, and nothing else will do.
The point of intuitive eating is not that you reject a certain list of foods you’re not “supposed” to like anymore; in fact it’s quite the opposite. It’s more like now you evaluate foods on the basis of whether or not they agree with you at a particular moment in time and whether you actually really like the taste of them, rather than whether or not you “should” or “should not” be eating them.
Personally I found that the difference following IE that was most salubrious was inviting more variety into my diet, instead of getting into food ruts where I ate the same things over and over again. More variety is good. Everything that’s actually edible has unique enzymes in it. Also I started to discover what amounts of things agreed with me and what didn’t, and when. Sometimes I would get the cookie with the sandwich, sometimes eat part of it, sometimes eat the whole thing, and sometimes skip it because I had Do-Si-Dos in the freezer and I just ate six of them (yes, six!) for breakfast, or because my stomach felt a little too balky for chocolate chips that day.
Likewise, was I getting all those free soda refills because I really craved them, or because they were free? If it was the former, I’d get refills; if not, I wouldn’t. No value judgment either way. The point was even asking that question in the first place where I wouldn’t have before.
I do realize that there are some people for whom it’s just not gonna work, though, at least not without the help of a competent therapist. You might be one of them. But please don’t put undue pressure on yourself by assuming that we IE-ers all turn our noses up at “junk food.” I sure don’t.
May 27, 2008 at 10:17 am
No, I know you’re right, Meowser. And I love your Mental HAES post which I think makes some of the same points. But I find that many people who embrace IE end up pointing out that they “don’t even want” (whatever it is, usually some processed food) anymore. And I never found that to be the case, so it’s easy for me to beat myself up and tell myself UR DOIN IT RONG, and that I’m just too greedy for this to work because look at all these other people who can cheerfully pass up cake when it’s right under their noses. This is not those people’s fault, it’s mine for always comparing myself to others so much. But thank you for reinforcing this stuff anyway… it seems I need to hear from time to time that we are not all the same, and some IE’ers like junk food and others don’t, and some people eat more or less than others, and all that.
That’s a good point. I agree that mindfulness is really helpful no matter whether I feel like I am “actively IEing” or not. And of course dieting and food plans can be a big enemy of that because I’m eating whatever I planned out for lunch, and you better believe I’m eating all of it because that’s what I’m “allowed,” and I’m removing from the equation whether I want that particular food at that time, or whether it’s too much or not enough, and just generally distancing myself from my body’s signals, which is bad for me.
May 27, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I really wish my relationship with food were not so screwed up.
Me too. *hugs*
I think part of the problem is… a lot of people who come to FA have a relationship with food that is fucked up from years of yo-yo dieting. So when they stop dieting, they find the food issues gradually go away. But personally, I’ve never really dieted much. So I guess my food issues must be coming from somewhere else and I need to find out where that is in order to fix them… it makes sense that not dieting wouldn’t fix them if dieting was never the problem in the first place. I just wish I could figure out what was.
May 27, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Aww, thanks for the hugs. Back atcha.
I think that even if you haven’t dieted much (I really haven’t, I don’t think, in the grand scheme of things), food can still be a very loaded issue for women. What I mean is, even if we don’t “give in” to the pressure, pretty much any woman who isn’t actually underweight is going to hear repeatedly that she is too big, eats too much, takes up too much space. IMO that pressure can still screw up your relationship with food. Perhaps your issues are still coming from that kind of place?
But whether or not that is true for you (I don’t want to invalidate your opinion that dieting is not the problem because you know best about yourself), I hope things eventually get better for both of us… and for everyone else struggling with this, of course. I sort of feel like people deserve to be able to fulfill a basic human need like eating without having to undergo so much stress and shame about it.
August 16, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Really hope you don’t mind a comment on an old post, but I was just wondering if you’ve read Breaking the Diet Habit: The Natural Weight Alternative. I was just finishing it when I was reading through your archives. Your struggles with IE paralleled what I was reading in the book about internal versus external eating cues. The book is old (1983), but maybe it could help inform your work with IE?
Anyway, I feel for you on this one. I haven’t even attempted IE yet because if I wait to eat until I feel hunger, then I end up not eating at all or not eating until 8:00 p.m. I don’t know if this is from my smoking days or dieting days or what…
August 25, 2009 at 11:19 am
Absolutely not–thank you so much for commenting and I’m sorry it was stuck in moderation for so long. I will definitely check out that book.
I also agree that hunger is much more complicated than we sometimes think. For example, if you don’t eat for a long time, you seem to go through a period where you just don’t feel hungry at all. It’s like you have to feed your body and brain even when you are not hungry, at first, just to get the signals working better.